Talk:Bestiary: Hells

From HGWiki

This is still a work in progress. I have most information for all hell creatures, am only missing exact concealment, paragon checks, turn resistance, healing element and how each enemy should be dealt with, most of which I should be able to get after some more time in hellgate.

Having only ever played a bard in the hells I don't know how a lot of enemies are supposed to be dealt with from the perspective of Druids/Clerics/Arcane Casters etc, so will be leaving notes on this page for enemies I'm unsure of how they are supposed to be obliterated. Also feel free to add whatever information you have on how to deal with creatures where I've forgotten stuff, or fix mistakes i make.

• Abishai:

Decided to combine all Abishai together since the only difference is their Elemental weakness. I'm unsure how Paragon Abishai elemental weakness and healing element work. Are all Chosen's weak to/healed by the same element or can it only be determined during the run through trial and error?

Paragon Abishai inflict cumulative vulnerabilities to their chosen element on-hit. They are all Weaponmasters in their chosen weapons, with maximum Critical Threat ranges, and 2-4 hits from any Elite Chosen will kill any Player Character from massive damage, regardless of immunities.Trazik 07:45, 28 December 2008 (CST)

Acid heals Black and Green, Elec heals Blue, Fire heals Red and Cold Heals White. Trazik 07:45, 28 December 2008 (CST)

Excellent, added. I'm not happy with how the healing and weakness elements look all clumped together, but making 5 different entries for each Abishai is a waste. I think a table may be in order. Crimson 15:53, 28 December 2008 (CST)

• Advespa: Weirds and Wails only priority spells? Also need to recheck SR and concealment, thought they had more than 0 for each.

I see no conceal listed for Advespas in my logs. Advespas are often good targets because they are immune to KD and Petrification and tend to wreak havoc on the casters. Good tanks will prioritize them, especially over stoned mobs (conversely the sign of clueless wastes of party space are the tanks that beat on a stoned Osyluth while Advespas repeatedly KD and kill the casters). Yomi 12:12, 27 December 2008 (CST)

I am pretty sure they have high SR, but do not have the result handy. I know they normally require mords/Bestow Curse and maybe Nature's Balance in addition to get the SR down low enough to be branded. Trazik 13:07, 27 December 2008 (CST)

• Amnizu: Clenched Hand effective for dealing damage due to concealment?

I find Bigby 8 (Clenched Fist) works very well, even without Bestow Curse or Mord (pariah in rage, Con 72, 1xdemi). Trazik 13:07, 27 December 2008 (CST)

• Arachill: This is just for my own entertainment, but since they are not immune to Mind Spells can these be dom'd (int arti/cleric/animal emp) and then used to stone their own demon brethren?

They can be dommed/empathied and often are. However they will not stone the enemies. Yomi 12:12, 27 December 2008 (CST)

Something else here, we have that it is healed by Acid, but I can find nothing to confirm this, and I would've thought living in Stygia it would've been cold. Can anyone confirm either one? Crimson 19:40, 31 December 2008 (CST)

• Ayperobos Swarm: Unsure if there are other ways to deal with swarms. Missing:Healing Element, Paragon Notes (unknown fort check)
  

Elite Swarms have 98% Concealment. I believe normal Swarms have 90-95% Concealment, but have no specific information to confirm this. Trazik 07:45, 28 December 2008 (CST)

My logs show regular swarms have 99% concealment (which can be effectively lowered by blindfight and/or listen). Elites have the same. Weird and Greater Ruin are the best. Because of the concealment the strength artifact is rarely useful. The next fastest way to kill them is having a Lifethreader who can usually kill them in 5-10 rounds while attacking something else. Yomi

• Baatorian Golem: Have on my spreadsheet that they are outsiders, thought they'd be constructs though, need to recheck. Unsure about actual name for Paragon. Also can't find screenshot of description, will get it out of hellgate soon.

Elites are healed by Divine damage. Trazik 07:45, 28 December 2008 (CST)

• Bezekira: Missing: Paragon Notes (unknown will check),
  

Bezerikas are healed by Acid damage. Trazik 07:45, 28 December 2008 (CST)

• Brachina: Stupid creature is immune to Know Vulnerabilities and all the spells I used to determine Saves. Missing: Type, Healing Element, Concealment, AB, Crit Immunity, Fort/Reflex/Will, Spell Immunities, Special Abilities, Notes (I really have no idea what to do with them), Paragon Notes (many different checks).
  

Brachinae are to be Greater Ruined or Imploded. Trazik 07:45, 28 December 2008 (CST)

A few knowledgeable people have indicated paragon Brachinas are one of the most dangerous mobs in the hells. Yomi 13:01, 28 December 2008 (CST)

Is that because the instant death ability reaches extremely high DC or do they have other abilities? Crimson 15:53, 28 December 2008 (CST)

• Bueroza:

I thought Buerozas are vulnerable to cold and magic, not acid and magic. Vichya 01:43, 2 January 2009 (CST)

• Coldforge: Missing: Paragon Notes, Concealment

• Cornugon: Missing: Paragon Notes (unknown fort check)

• Dogai: Immune to Know Vulnerabilities. Also don't know about ways of dealing with Dogai other than greater ruin. Is conceal low enough for melee? Are there spells that work? Missing: Type (would assume outsider), Notes, Paragon Notes (Does the Dev Crit occur on normal paragon, and if so, what is DC?), Spell Immunities, Concealment
  

Dogai can be meleed, but it is slow. Ssithrak weapons work well. They can be Weirded and Greater Ruined.Trazik 02:37, 30 December 2008 (CST)

• Erinyes: Missing:Paragon Notes, Concealment

• Excruciarch: I'm unsure as to how Excruciarch can be killed, i'm assuming greater ruin and melee (can't remember how bad kb is). Is Clenched hand a good damage dealer?. I'm also unsure as to what the Con Check is against, I waited for ages but kept succeeding the check in hellgate. Missing:Notes (Does agony's curse damage grow larger for each time it hits?), Paragon Notes, Special Abilities, Concealment
  

I believe Excruciarchs can be stoned. They cannot be Greater Ruined as far as I know. I am uncertain about Clenched Fist -- must investigate. I believe their "Special" attack is a magic-great smite (not Greater Smite!) since the damage seems to vary.Trazik 02:37, 30 December 2008 (CST)

They seem to do a magic based single-target smite for big damage. Also my impression from logs is that every time they are hit they do a chunk of negative damage to everyone around them (any neg protection works, but logs show people often miss it so take constant damage). They can be insta-killed by assassins or rangers.

• Falxugon: Bit of an oddity here, apparently Falxugons are weak to the same element that heals them. Need to recheck this.Missing Concealment
  

Normal and P1 Falxugons are weak to Sonic, but P2s and P3s are healed by it. Same as Bueroza.Trazik 02:37, 30 December 2008 (CST)

Crimsonbinome22 04:15, 27 December 2008 (CST)

• Gelugon: (Have managed to not get this one in hellgate for long enough to get everything off it. Missing:Type, Concealment, Fort/Reflex/Will, Spell Immunities, Notes, Damage Dealt.

• Hell Hound: Missing: Notes (how much damage is the breath attack for? I skipped over it in my spreadsheet because I thought it was too insignificant to matter, but the character i was Hellgating with had massive amounts of fire immunity)

• Hell Leech: Missing: Managed to miss this one completely in hellgate. Don't have anything for it except what i gleam from other sources.

• Ice Fiend: I have pictures of each of the Ice Fiends there, but I don't remember which is which, nor what spells each specifically cast. Will need a bit for investigationing for this one, then can add spell list of each in Notes section. Missing: Concealment, Notes

• Imp: Missing:Concealment,

• Infernal Machine: Missing: Special Abilities (need to find what DC on fire/pos damage is for normal machs).

• Kocrachon: Missing:Notes (Does Petrification stop their healing ability?)<

Yes, it does. Trazik 04:27, 2 January 2009 (CST)

• Kyton: Missing: Concealment,

• Lemure: Missing:Paragon Notes.

• Living Cold: Misssing: Concealment

• Maelephant: Missing:Healing Element, Paragon Notes

• Malebranche: Missing: Concealment

• Malefic Wind: Missing:Concealment, Description (winds and cold don't have a description, will see if i can find one in a monster manual somewhere).

• Narzugon: Missing: Concealment,

Narzugons are immune to fear and can't be weirded. Vichya 01:43, 2 January 2009 (CST)

• Orthon: Missing:Concealment
  

Only normal Orthons can be dominated or weirded. Orhon Fists, Superiors and Elites are immune to mind-affecting spells. --Vichya 01:43, 2 January 2009 (CST)

• Pit Fiend: Do PFs have a poison ability? I'm pretty sure I keep hearing about it but got no checks on it. Is it para only? Missing: Concealment.

Regular Pit Fiends have it. If you make the save you are blinded (UEF protects). If you fail, you die unless you have poison immunity. Because of these and Osyluths, having Poison Immunity is more or less essential for a tank in the deep hells. Yomi 13:58, 3 January 2009 (CST)

• Pyrexic Fume: Missing: Concealment.

• Rakshasa: Missing: Everything, immune to KV again. I have the spell list there (think it's everything) but I have no idea which rak casts which, aside from wail.

• Sahaugin: Missing: Concealment, Spells (Have some spells there, don't know which ones belongs to which however). Also unsure of the ways to deal with these.

I'm not sure either, as there seem to be two distinct kinds. One implodes people, the other hits. Personally I never found the melee ones to be particularly interesting, but the implodes are a big deal. Stygia is not a nice level to lose all your buffs. Yomi 13:58, 3 January 2009 (CST)

• Soul Shell: Missing: Healing Element, Concealment.

• Spinagon: Missing: Concealment

• Swamp Devil: Missing: unknown Disc check.

General: I have quite a bit of information on many hell mobs (elites included) and would be happy to contribute to this topic. I do not have screenies though, but I have healing element on at least half of the elites. Trazik 13:07, 27 December 2008 (CST)

This is good, over the next few days I'm going to see if i can get all my spreadsheet info transferred onto the wiki, and will make notes on this page as to what I'm missing for each creature. Crimson 01:10, 28 December 2008 (CST)

Do you just want me to add data as I see fit (to fill the gaps, leaving the format unchanged, of course)? Trazik 07:45, 28 December 2008 (CST)

Sounds great to me. Crimson 15:53, 28 December 2008 (CST)

Contents 1 Paragons, Superiors And Elites 2 SR 3 TR 4 Elites and Damage Taken 5 Descriptions

Paragons, Superiors And Elites

I don't think we need an entirely new page or individual entries for paragons/superiors/elites since it will clutter things up, for very little gain. I've added a note at the top about figuring out what their stats/checks/AB etc will be. At the moment it's just a hunch that I haven't thouroughly tested, and can be used as a rough guide until we figure out exactly how Paragon attributes are calculated. If the paragon adds it's own entirely new abilities, detail it in the 'Paragon Notes' section of each monster Crimson 01:10, 28 December 2008 (CST)

SR

This is from logs with my cleric. These are the highest numbers seen in the logs, but still may be too low due to curse, NB, Frailty, CoT, Threader, etc.. Yomi 13:46, 27 December 2008 (CST)

SR Numbers on the main page look good now, removing the big list. Yomi 13:39, 3 January 2009 (CST)

TR

I put as much info on TR numbers as I could determine. The only oddities left are the Nupperbos and Sahuagin, that as far as I know are outsiders but show no response at all to turning. They may be like Mammon's Tears and are specifically immune. Yomi 13:39, 3 January 2009 (CST)

Elites and Damage Taken

All elite paragons take damage from 3 different types, typically 2 elements and one exotic, but not exclusively so. This occurs in the form of 2 "major damage types" and 1 "minor damage type". For example: Inchoate Baatorians (base = Nupperibo) take major damage from Sonic & Positive, minor damage from cold, and heal from fire. I often write this as +S/P =C -F in my own shorthand.

"Major" refers to "50% or lower vulnerability to this damage type".
"Minor" refers to "between 60 and 100% immunity to this damage type".

These numbers can be confirmed with the "Know Vulnerabilities" Bard Spell. Trazik 07:45, 28 December 2008 (CST)

Other examples are:

Elite Bezekira Prideleader +S/M =F -A

Elite Camizu +E/P =C -A

Elite Chosen of Tiamat (green) +E/D =C -A

Elite Cinderscale Broodmother +C/N =S -F

Elite Hamatula Scourge +A/D =P -N

Trazik 07:51, 28 December 2008 (CST)

Hmmm, I didn't realise this happened. We should probably represent this on the main page, although I'm not sure how. The short hand is good but I think we should un-shorthand it for the wiki.

Hmm, we probably need a heading for melee damage types dealt by these mobs. I have all this information fpr all hell mobs. Trazik 01:54, 29 December 2008 (CST)

I'm unsure as to how badly it needs to be covered. I don't think it's a particularly good use of in game time to be switching rings according to what is attacking you. I was intending instead to cover this to some extent in the layer by layer guides (after Bestiary is complete) and list what the best immunities are for each layer, detailing what enemies do particularly noteworthy amounts of specific elements/exotics on that layer. I suppose we should add it anyway, for research purposes. Will no doubt come in handy somewhere. Shouldn't be too much effort to go back and add a 'Deals:' entry to each monster's entry. Crimson 04:22, 29 December 2008 (CST)

Descriptions

Funky is seeing if there's a script that can pull monster descriptions and output them to a text file, so I can just copy + paste them, so leaving those boxes blank for now. Will go back and add them in later.Crimson 07:20, 31 December 2008 (CST)

Done and sent. Yomi 13:58, 3 January 2009 (CST)